Topic: DEATH NOTE!!!! .:.Master Thread.:.

[keepergirl]

What I find intresting is that Light takes the role that the law usually have, and the things most of you call barbaric are things the law usually do. The only diffrence is that one person instead of multiple instances condemn the criminals.

This was essentially what I was getting at.  I, myself, believe in the death penalty for murderers (and there are a few other crimes that I believe warrant the death penalty but the law disagrees with me here).  All Light started out doing was giving the death penalty to those criminals that the law had already deemed as guilty.  If I remember correctly, those criminals were ones who had committed felonies, not really lesser crimes.  Only later on did his actions go further, eventually leading him to kill others who committed less severe crimes and even innocents.  But that all happened after the police and L had made Light out to be their enemy.

Light's actions in killing criminals really are neither black nor white, neither right nor wrong.  In my opinion, killing the criminals was okay.  Killing the innocent people was wrong, but a wrong that was necessitated by the interference of the victims.  (But still a wrong, nonetheless.)

Perhaps if he hadn't been made out to be a criminal, Light's actions would have helped reduce crime rates, at least in Japan.  (Although, I do see Light as being the type of person who would wipe out crime first, and then start killing those who disagree with him, or those who get driving tickets, and so forth.  I think he loves the power he feels he has through using the Death Note, so I could definitely see him taking things way too far.)

[twik]

I can see why some people still think Light is not so bad, but his days of killing criminals for justice are long gone.  Perhaps somewhere in his head he still thinks all he is doing is making the world a better place, but more and more he is acting out of fear of persecution.  The criminals he kills now are used for learning the capabilities of the Death Note rather than fulfilling some sense of duty to the public, and he has shown that he has no problem using this knowledge against innocent people.  Light has shown himself to be a highly intelligent individual.  A truly just person would try to find a way to continue his crusade while evading capture but at the first sign of trouble Light goes on a killing spree.  Are these the actions of a just man?

[sosanimeboy]

You've got to realize that he's a high school student tied to his family and he can't just 'evade capture' without being noticed.

[keepergirl]

I can see why some people still think Light is not so bad, but his days of killing criminals for justice are long gone.  Perhaps somewhere in his head he still thinks all he is doing is making the world a better place, but more and more he is acting out of fear of persecution.  The criminals he kills now are used for learning the capabilities of the Death Note rather than fulfilling some sense of duty to the public, and he has shown that he has no problem using this knowledge against innocent people.  Light has shown himself to be a highly intelligent individual.  A truly just person would try to find a way to continue his crusade while evading capture but at the first sign of trouble Light goes on a killing spree.  Are these the actions of a just man?

I don't think Light is a just man.  He started out as a just man, but he has crossed the line to being a killer now.  That doesn't make me respect or admire him any less.  I've always found the "bad guys" in shows to be more interesting than the good guys.  Light never disappoints me with his intelligence and organization.  Episode 7 showed us the he's very good at cleaning up his messes.  These are all characteristics that I admire.  So as it stands right now, I support Light more than L. 
My points above were to demonstrate that Light only began killing innocent people after "the law" had started going after him.  But I also said that killing innocent people is wrong. 
Do I think Light's a killer?  Yes.  Do I hope he gets caught?  No.  I enjoy watching him and trying to figure out what he'll do next.  He's intelligent, rational, and an overall entertaining character.

(By the way, I also agree with sosanimeboy.  Light needs to go on living his ordinary life in order to not draw attention to himself.  However, even just living his ordinary life brought him to the attention of L, since he's related to a police officer.  So it's really not that easy for him to avoid being detected and/or caught.)

[tlynnec]

You know, there's an old saying: "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions."  To me that's the perfect description of Light's behavior.  When it started out, he truly had good intentions, and I think he still does.  Remember his reaction in the first episode when he realized that he was responsible for Taku's (the biker's) death?  He was genuinely horrified at his own actions. Psychologically speaking he HAD to justify his own actions to himself or be consumed by the guilt.  And it's as he's used his good intentions to justify his own actions to himself that he as gradually crossed over the line.  Since that first moment of self-justification, we've watched him quickly develop a god complex.  That complex is a psychological form of self-preservation: the actions of a god are beyond question of good or evil and therefore require no justification or guilt.

Historically speaking, we've seen this with people who are generally perceived as "evil."  Hitler is a prime example.  When he was elected as president of the Weimer Republic, it was because he preached a doctrine of economic salvation.  His early actions after being elected were in the best interest of the german people and include policies and programs to resurrect the german economy (which had been destroyed by WWI) and improve Germany. But we all know that he too quickly crossed the line.  He used to the salvation of Germany to justify war and murder.  I'm not saying that Light is headed for genocide, but the psychological comparison still stands.

Whoa... didn't mean to write a book. *Shuts up*

[Draconis]

Wow tlynnec, while I normally love to write long though-out ideas and perceptions. I don't think I could have analyzed DN in such a manner. Your perception  and how you drew your conclusion is much more right then wrong to me though...I'm actually proud there are numerous members who can see far beyond plots and backgrounds. But we all enjoy anime so much because it's something that RL viewing can't normally do right?

Kudos to you

Keepergirl, when I was reading " I don't think Light is just a man" I thought you were going to the relm of no longer human...lol I think that's me. The creators and writers have made his character so unique compared to the normal "killer". The only other person that stands out in my mind like that is "Johan" from Monster...and he barely killed anyone, rather used people to kill each other.

It might be wierd to say but by episode 3 Light couldn't do anything "wrong" in my eyes. Sure in society killing is against spiritual and moral living values, but if Light does it...it is somehow justified. I don't have the mind power at the moment to elaborate upon that, but I think some of you can realize how I came to the conclusion.

and on a lighter note....who cares? Death Note is the Shiz and I'll watch no matter what happens

[kayryn]

I don't think that any action can ever be entirely good or entirely bad. Anything you do is near bound to have some negative reflection on someone else.

As of right nwo, in the anime, I see Light as drifting slightly from his previous course, but sitll on the right tracks. I'm sure that as it goes along, we'll see him become much more manipulative (such as lying to Naomi to get her name, playing on the death of her fiancee) to keep himself clear, as L will NOT give up his investigation, and there will be so much more he needs to do as time goes along. The FBI agents are one piece moved and taken in what looks like it's going to be a very long game of chess.

L will have to sacrifice pieces to make Kira show him a weakness (such and Lind L Taylor) while Light will be knowingly setting traps around these sacrifices. What we have is two geniuses trying to outwit eachother, one before he is killed, the other, before he is found.

It is so easy to just keep writing.... Goddamn these plottish stories!

[hostghost]

I never thought Light's actions could be justified. Not even the initial killing of criminals. I am opposed to the death penalty because life is too precious for a single human, or even a collaboration of humans to decide over it. However, I don't find Light's action extraordinary. The US bombing of Bagdhad, Chinas persecution of Falun-gong, Israles launching into Palistine, and Norways sale of cluster-missiles. Actions carried out in the name of good\God that kill and mutilate are carried out all around the world each day.
There is one thing though, one thing that separates Light from all the worlds "justifiers". And that is the fact that he is alone.
Someone mentioned Adolf Hitler as an example of evil carried out in the name of good. Now that image is a bit crooked. The fact that germany managed to unify itself, build an industry that was one of europes finest, create jobs for all, food for all, bring hope to people that felt only remorse and failure. Now that is great work, and this was Hitlers doing in the 8 years before the war. Now this may sound like Nazi sympathy, but far from it. What I am trying to say is that alongside Hitler was a group, no a clan of people. All genius, bright men who had waited for an opertunety  to use their skills. Wich they did not get in the broken-down germany that they grew up in. They where all guilty of the crimes committed. Rommel and Mengele, split decision killing of thousands. Just as governments that deal death penalty it is not a single mans doing. This is where Light differs from the "butcherers".
This is what makes him "God"...

"True persona justice may find,
community alas, is forever blind."

                                                         -hostghost

[keepergirl]

Keepergirl, when I was reading " I don't think Light is just a man" I thought you were going to the relm of no longer human...lol I think that's me. The creators and writers have made his character so unique compared to the normal "killer". The only other person that stands out in my mind like that is "Johan" from Monster...and he barely killed anyone, rather used people to kill each other.

Haha, read carefully.  I said I don't think Light is a just man.  Very different meanings there. 

I feel the need to say that I'm really glad to see these well-thought out posts and people actually analyzing the situations that occur in the episodes, rather than just a bunch of "ZOMG Light sucks!!!111" posts.  And I'm actually surprised that there isn't as much hate for Light as I thought there would be at this point.  (Either that, or the Light-haters aren't speaking up.)

I don't think that any action can ever be entirely good or entirely bad. Anything you do is near bound to have some negative reflection on someone else.

I disagree with this statement.  I, and I hope most rational people, see no good in rape, child molestation, and a variety of other felonies.  Murder is one of the few felonies that sort of has a white side along with the black.

[tlynnec]

I just have to give kudos to everyone here.  I think this is easily the most intelligent DN thread I've read anywhere.  Agree or disagree with each other as we might, the points that people make here are pretty incredible.

[Draconis]

Haha, read carefully.  I said I don't think Light is a just man.  Very different meanings there. 

Doh! That's what i get for reading over 1,000 words per minute.

Yes, im very happry to share this "smart thread

[Tsubasa]

Well, I suppose we could all agree and 'doh' at the obvious fact that Light is one of those kids who thinks that everything is fair in 'justice'...even injustice is justified for the sake of justice, that is. For him, killing is no longer a wrong act now. Even if he does end up killing someone for neither being a bad guy nor a possible threat to him, I doubt he'd panic and go 'OMFG, what did I do this time?'

-Tsubasa

[kayryn]

I disagree with this statement.  I, and I hope most rational people, see no good in rape, child molestation, and a variety of other felonies.  Murder is one of the few felonies that sort of has a white side along with the black.

While you may see no good in it, as do I, in fact, those who commit the crimes have to have some motive. It's like saying "I hate this food" but then someone else likes it. It's a difference in opinion, really, and while most may believe it to be wrong, it is not entirely so, as, out of 6 billion people (nearing 7, I believe) there is bound to be a select few who have opposing opinions and, while we say wrong, they say right.

Much like the difference in opinion Light and the police have (getting back to the subject). While Light believes he is justice, L believes that  he is injustice.

That's what I mean by nothing is always entirely right or wrong.

[lindewell]

I've just watched episode 7, the show is getinng better and better, there was such a tension during this episode.
But hell, thank you for the ones who SPOILED in the previous page, I knew what was going to happen from the beginning 

[tlynnec]

@ lindewell

suggestion: watch then read.  this thread doesn't spoil anything beyond the current ep.