Topics

16

Except for the Pig / "How to make your release a sucessful one"

« on: March 08, 2008, 02:18:58 am »

I've gotten enough questions about this:  basically how does the pig decide when to release something that has been finished, that is, already subbed by live-evil and ready-to-be-released. 

The answer is that the pig has an extensive manual that he follows in order to maximize the chance of a release being sucessful or not.  This process has been fine-tuned over the years... live-evil is a group that has been around for a long time and had pleanty of time to build off experience in this area.  Despite this, one botched release can be the difference between a series gaining a significant following and being a total flop -- the pig has quite a lot of weight resting on his shoulders.  If you think the pig has an easy job, ie. that he just says "I'm feeling good, let's release it" or "today is not a good day... let's wait" then you are wrong.  His job is very difficult and the protocol he follows is actually quite complex and involved.  At any given time, the pig has had no less than two advisors to assist him in this role; nonetheless he still ends up doing most of the actual work here and I hope people appreciate the solid job he does behind-the-scenes to ensure that every release is accepted and well-liked, that every show live-evil releases gains at least some following of fans and the cycle is able to continue.

I've pasted the beginning of his manual below, just to give you a sample of how complex the protocol is and how hard he works.  I can't figure out how to turn off the smileys...

I.  Univariant temporal supply as it releates to release timing

1) Release supply is temporal.  A release is copied, consumed, and then disposed
of.  It may be archived, but it is rarely used again by an individual. 
Likewise, releases older than 3-4 days 'fall off' the index sites and hence
lose visibility.

2) The cost basis of a release is the work put into it.

3) On the outside, the output for a release is limited to positive recognition
among fans.

4) Positive recognition among fans is almost always desired by group members. 
It also helps for things like recruiting, which are vital to groups long-term
survival.

5) The positive recognition that comes from a release is determined in part
by the other unrelated releases that come out around that time.  See (1), this
is known as the "temporal time supply".

6) When the temporal time supply is low, fans have little to watch and are more
willing to try something new or experiment with something they may not
ordinarily like.  When temporal time supply is high, fans have pleanty to watch
and are less likely to try a new show they are unfamiliar with or think they
may not like.

7) Therefore, in cases where the making of a release is not time-critical (ie.
no competition for that title) or where a release is particularly lesser-known,
and there is relatively constant demand, the market for positive recognition
among fans favors a release made during a time of low temporal supply rather
than a time of high temporal supply.

If every group observed this principle (7) for all their releases, the
temporal supply would level out in times of normal demand.  This is not the case
today:  there are obvious fluctuations in temporal supply that happen regardless
of demand. 

II.  The role of competition in release output

1) When multiple groups release the same thing, some form of competition exists
(I-1).  Typical factors that determine which release fans will consume:

A) Timeliness is generally accepted as being the most important criterion for
the majority of fans.

B) Reputation.

C) Quality, both real and perceived.

2) The cost basis (I-2) of a competitive series ranges from similar to higher,
higher in the case that it is rushed beyond the natural working rate in order
to try be the first to get it out.

III.  Partnerships are beneficial in a number of situations

1) In nearly all cases, partners divide the labor so the cost basis of a release
(I-2) drops on a per-group basis. 

2) In the situation where there are three groups in competition to make a
release first, if two partners are together such that they have a greater chance
to beat the other group to a release, this is beneficial for both of them.

3) In the situation that two groups want to sub a release but cannot field a
full team, but could field a partial team that when combined would make a full
team, then a partnership is beneficial to both of them.

IV.  The role of secrecy and subterfuge in competitive release timing

1) When multiple groups sub the same thing, all other things being equal, most
groups desire to be the first to release (I-1-A).

2) A knowledge of one's competitors release status is useful, for example:

A) If a competitor is planning to release in 12 hours, own group may use this
knowledge to target for a release in 9 hours.

B) If a competitor's release is near-term imminent, own group may make a
release immediately, to pre-empt this action.

C) If all competitor's releases are still far off, own group may relax and take
their time, focus on other projects with more pressing time needs, etc.

3) Therefore it is important not only to protect own group's own status from
subterfuge, but also to engage in subterfuge on other groups, as time and
resources allow.

4) Infiltration of competitor's status channels can help with any (2-A), (2-B),
(2-C).  Infiltration of competitor's distro channel is of less value, but
may still help with (2-B) even with BT if the group distros to advance seeders
in preperation for a release.

5) Even without this type of subterfuge (4), a rapid response to competitor's
releases can help minimize damage.

V.  The role of multiple (multi-version) releases in competitive release timing

1) Versioned releases are an adaptive strategy of competitive release timing.

2) A "V1" release is created with emphasis on timeliness.  This "V1" release is
then held and 'ready to go' in the event a release becomes necessary.

3) A "V2" release (and possibly subsequent versions) are made, attempting to
approve quality, watchability, translation accuracy, rendered effects, etc. 

4) Protocol differs from group to group, some groups will release the V1 release
and thereafter stop working on that episode once another group makes a release.
Other groups will not release a "V1" release unless they feel it is necessary
or a competitor's release is semi-imminent.  Many groups will remake prior
releases made from TV source once DVD source becomes avaliable. 

17

Current & Future L-E Projects / Shion no Ou #12 subtitle problem

« on: January 22, 2008, 06:35:00 pm »

I had a problem with the subs when the reporter guy was viewing the message board or chat on his
phone and you see some of the posts in english.  The very last post is mostly covered up by the subtitles.  It said something like "Ayumi- ... cute" but you can't read the whole thing b'cos it's covered up.  Any ideas what this said in entirety?  Which honorific did the poster use for Ayumi?

around 3:54 in the ep.

Otherwise it was a really good / intense episode, not just about the girls' but the pros they played against and their individual approaches to their obsession.  The blonde-haired guy that Shion plays against seems like quite a piece of work.

18

Live-eviL Recruitment Center / NOW RECRUITING: Full-Time backup / secondary Mascot Position

« on: January 12, 2008, 02:15:13 am »

The pig is looking for a new small animal (pig, bunny, chinchilla, ferret, etc.) to serve as a secondary / backup mascot.  The highly coveted and sought-after role of the secondary mascot is to 'sub' for the pig when he is not feeling well or otherwise occupied, or when he is unavailable to make an appearance at a charity event, convention appearance / forum due to logistical or other misc. problems.  Other roles include attending morale-boosters or cheer-up sessions for disinfrancised staff, posing and modeling in 'glamour' and 'slice of life' photos / movies, etc.  Interested small animals should be highly motivated self-starters who are endearing and enjoyable to be around.  Applicants can send their photos, movie files, acts, or otherwise communicate to request an interview for the position over Skype (see the contact info on the site).

19

Oppai Fansubs / Historical Links / Commentary

« on: December 13, 2007, 04:12:51 pm »

http://animedownload.net/ads/emotions.html
[making reference to early fansubbers or other people of note to the community]

"When I first became active in fansubbed anime (long before I started the ADS), there were certain "giants" in the fansub community: Will Ray of KNA, Barbara Chambers of Technogirls, Jay Harvey of Anipike, some people at Kodocha and later Anime News Network, and maybe one or two other people whose name escapes as I write this. With the exception of Chambers, all of these people have since retired from public life. Without putting these people on a pedestal so high they would feel uncomfortable getting down, these people were an inspiration to me. They were leaders of a movement. A movement I"

[an example of the old site when it was up]
http://web.archive.org/web/20010223203612/animedownload.net/ads/

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/1998-10-02/fansub-update-technogirls-kodocha
"n a public statement, TechnoGirls front-woman Barbara Chambers expressed her gratitude"

[early list of fansubbers / fansub distributors]
http://home.houston.rr.com/sekihougumi/goodtraders.htm

[Kodocha Anime formally 'shut down' around June, 2003]
http://web.archive.org/web/20030618040627/http://www.animemetropolis.com/kodocha/

[compare the earlier methods to BT today]
http://www.sleepisfortheweak.org/articles/cheapanime.html

[an example of some early online distributors]
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/1999-01-06/digital-anime-distribution-group-takes-off
Digital Anime Distribution, or DAD, is part of a new trend towards internet-based fansub distribution. The group, consisting of college students Charles Liu and Robert H Wu, will aquire fansubs and digitize them, compress them in RealVideo form, and make them easily downloadable... Previous attempts at downloadable anime utilized MPEG compression, and have required enormous bandwidth due to their size. RealVideo format, while not as pretty, makes files roughly 1/6 the size of an MPEG file. Rather than making them download-only files, the group will distribute CD-R's"

[more from Barbara Chambers... she appeals to fansubbers to sub little-known anime]
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/1998-10-25

[Anna Exter originally translated for Barbara, but then started working for commercial companies]
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/1999-04-15

[Tomodachi Anime Distribution closes.  "I'll make a Habit of it...", "Hime-chan", etc.]
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/1998-12-10/fansubber-update

[list of VHS distros, fansubbers, etc. in 1998]
http://web.archive.org/web/19980110115034/www.anipike.com/fansub.html
[/list]

[Avery's reason for creating VirtualDub in the first place]
http://www.virtualdub.org/virtualdub_history.html

20

Oppai Fansubs / EC

« on: November 20, 2007, 12:03:26 pm »

"Then, some servers had downloading for most everything turned off by default, and would require that you do something in order to gain full downloading privilages. For instance, you may have had to download a video that was copyrighted by the server owner. This video was market 'absolutely not for distribution-- copyright so-and-so' and it was the only file guests could download. There might be some graphic text in the video itself, and that graphic text was a password that would allow you to create a real account.

This way, an enforcement agent would first have to engage in a real copyright violation to gain download access and see what was on the server. If that agent then later tried to sue the server owner, for copyright violation, the server owner could turn around and file a counter-complaint for copyright violation since the file he had to download to even get on the site was copyrighted by the server owner.

Actual law enforcement might just laugh at such a scheme, but a corporation wants to avoid being sued by individuals -- a corporation suing an individual is not an easy case to win before a jury, but an individual suing a corporation is an easier case to win, with greater potential for damages. If a corporation has to violate copyright law in order to continue with an investigation that may not even yield any results, they might just give up and go crack down somewhere else."

"Passwords used for things like encryption might be flawed in that some courts can force you to reveal a password.  So consider instead using 'self-incriminating pass phrases'.  A court can't compel you to reveal self-incriminating information.  If your password contains references to past crimes or the like.  It doesn't even have to be true.  Your passphrase might be that you stole military secrets and sold them to an enemy of the state.  Or that you committed some crime that has not been solved.  Make sure it is illegal, and either directly applies to the matter or is something so serious that no one in their right mind would actually want to actually grant you immunity from."

21

Except for the Pig / It's almost that time of year again -- the Live-evil New Fansub Series Lottery

« on: October 26, 2007, 11:18:51 pm »

Guess what folks!  It's almost that time of year again!

For those that don't remember or haven't been through one of these before, read the FAQ below. 
The solicitation period will start on Monday, Oct 29. and will last 2 weeks.  After this time, the lottery will be held and the pig will randomly select a few new series' which we will then proceed to fansub.

For the loyal fans, this is your chance to suggest new series or to have your favorite series subbed by your favorite fansub group.  Don't let this once-a-year opportunity pass you by.  Call up the pig to vote, and remember, vote early and vote often.

1) How do I contact the pig to suggest a new series? 

Contact the pig like you normally contact him (see the piggie FAQ).  SERIES SUGGESTIONS MUST BE MADE OVER SKYPE.  DO NOT POST YOUR SUGGESTIONS AS PART OF THIS THREAD.

2) Okay I've downloaded Skype and placed a call in to the pig.  The call went through, but all I hear is squeaking noises.  How do I record my new series suggestion?

There are two ways to do this.  1) Speak the name of the series.  Your voice may be recorded for later use.  2) Type the name of the series in the "Skype Chat" window. 

3) Okay, I've done that.  How do I know my suggestion has been received?

Listen for a response from the pig.  When you hear a response from the pig, that is the indication that your request has been received.

4) How is the lottery actually held?

The names of the different series' suggested are written on some piggie treats, one treat per series name.  The treats are placed in the piggies cage simultaneously.  Then we turn the piggies lose and when only three piggie treats remain, those three series will be selected for subbing by live-evil.

22

Except for the Pig / Pig's guide: "Effective Group Management"

« on: October 21, 2007, 02:11:17 pm »

Now that the pig has got one of those 'pet keyboard' things, files like this have started to appear.
I'm not posting _everything_, I'm only posting the stuff that seems useful.

PURPOSE
-------

Typical uses.

For potential group members / newbies:
  - Which group (of several) to join.  All other things being equal, one
    prefers to be in the most effective group. 

For active group members:
  - Maximize the effectiveness of the group.  Evaluate potential
    new members.  Resolve conflicts.  Make group decisions.  etc.

For inactive group members:
  - Not inhibit the effectiveness of the group.

For leaders:
  - Lead a group effectively.  Members, structure, conflict resolution,
    decision making, etc.

NOTES
-----

"Ex:" is short for "Example:", an illustrative example follows.

EFFECTIVENESS IN GROUPS
------------- -- ------

*** Effective People ***

1) Have sufficient motivation.

  For the most part, people are either motivated or they aren't.  Everyone
  has their own reasons.  These days people aren't in groups for the
  assorted 'bennies', they are there to do what they want to do. 

  Ex:  Typical reasons - Ego, pleasing friends, boredom, love for a show or
  genre, ambition, recognition, belonging, ...

2) Have sufficient time.

  This task is one that can eat up a great deal of time.  At the same time,
  it is often thought of as a 'hobby' and nothing more.  Most people who get
  into a 'hobby' will typically abandon it after several months or less,
  unless there is something to keep it 'new' and 'fresh'. 

  Ex:  The time spent to sub a 22-minute episode is often greater than 16
  man-hours.

3) Work on what they like.  Some people are more particular than others.

  There is little to stop people from migrating to one group or another.
  If another group is doing something they like more, many people will just
  move. 

  Ex:  It depends largely on personal motivation and likes/dislikes.  Few
  people will work on anything. 

4) Work at the 'proper' pace (as fast or as slow/careful as needed).

  This differs from group to group.  Ideally, people prefer or adapt to the
  group's preferred pace. 

5) Don't have a bad personality, or if they do they don't let it get in the
   way of their work and work interactions with the group.

  Many people online act egotistical or territorial.  Others expect frequent
  reinforcement and can't stand when others ignore them. 

  Ex:  A common territorial problem is one who insists a task is his
  exclusively yet causes that task to be put on hold or stalled due to his own
  inaction.  When another tries to take up the task to speed things along, he
  insists that the task is 'his' and no one else should be allowed to do it. 

  Ex:  An annoying person who also demands attention and hates to be ignored.
  People will find him annoying and ignore him, which prevents him from getting
  the attention he wants.  Unhappiness is a foregone conclusion.

6) Aren't afraid to apply 'common sense' when needed. 

  This means questioning poor practices already in place, or the ability to
  make small, relatively inconsequential decisions on the spot as necessary.

  Ex:  Designing the directory structure of the group FTP or naming an IRC bot
  are inconsequential decisions that can be made as necessary, and do not
  require group input. 

*** Effective Structure ***

1) Empowers.  It assists the people who do the work, and gets them access to
   the proper resources they need to do that work.

  Many of the older supergroups, in time, developed structures that didn't
  empower those who did most of the work.  Concepts like 'seniority', where
  an older and less productive member has more 'say' and power than a younger,
  more productive member run counter to empowerment. 

2) Is limited in scope.  Decisions are made solely by those who they primarily
   effect. 

  This is most important when someone outside of a working group tries to
  impose a decision on that working group. 

3) Creates barriers only when absolutely necessary. 

  Barriers should always serve a purpose.  If someone has a problem, the
  initial approach should be the most direct one. 

*** Effective Decision Making ***

1) Follows the process:  Gather information, Analyze, Discuss, go for a
   reasonable and relative consensus among those affected, take a final
   vote on a divided issue only when absolutely necessary. 

  Making important decisions is not an easy process, and must be done with
  care.  This process is designed to stop 'snap' decisions which can have
  lasting effects on the group.

2) Does not make or mandate decisions that are largely pointless or
   inconsequential.

  Issues like the directory structure of the archive can be made on the
  spot using common sense.  Dictating that all group members must end
  sentences in the public IRC channel with the word 'nya' is pointless and
  will only end up scoffed at or ignored by group members. 

3) Avoids making decisions that will isolate or upset members.

  In some cases it is better to not make a decision at all or withhold
  judgement.  People expect 'perfection', and even one poor decision that is
  short-lived can harm group morale or result in other problems. 

4) Rescinds bad decisions, or ones that didn't work out, as soon as possible.

  Bad decisions need to be rescinded before it is too late.  Sometimes,
  decisions that seem good don't work out as people expected.  People are
  by nature impatient and don't want to have to abide by a poor decision.
  If a decision unintentionally results in group discord or problems for
  enough members, people expect it to be rescinded immediately.  There is no
  reason not to do so. 

5) Avoids important or relevant decision-making done in desperation or under
   extreme time pressure.

  An action taken in desperation is rarely one that would be taken under normal
  circumstances.  Avoid any tendency to catastrophize and don't try to make
  decisions under time pressure.  In this setting, there are few cases where
  this is necessary.  If a problem that requires immediate action can be
  forseen, try to come up with a mutually agreeable plan beforehand.

*** Effective Conflict Resolution ***

1) Personal Conflict when isolated.  If two people get on each other's nerves,
   or hate each other, the quickest and easiest solution is for them to
   mutually ignore each other.  Most online services like chat, e-mail, and
   the like have an ignore feature built in.  There is no harm in using it.

  Groups as a whole, or group leadership, should not condone actions like
  spoofing IP address or impersonation to malign another, or to bypass
  another's use of the ignore feature.

2) Personal Conflict when non-isolated.  No simple rules.  These are often
   the hardest conflicts to resolve, yet the most important.  In some cases,
   a neutral third party talking with 'both sides' can be beneficial. 

3) Personal conflict between multiple people.  Another type that is often
   difficult to resolve.  If there is a numerical imbalance, that does not
   necessarily make one side better or more valid than the other. 

*** Peripheral Issues ***

1) Management is second to personel issues. 

  For a group, the most important thing is to have a functional team.  Good
  management alone won't supply this.  Nor does it gaurantee sucess. 

  Poor management, however, can ruin an otherwise good team or cause members
  to become frustrated and leave.

2) Recruiting is central for long-term group survival.

  Some degree of turnover should be assumed and expected.  Recruiting new
  members is the only way to counter this.  New members, especially translators,
  should be recruited constantly. 

3) In non-work situations, 'Power' over others should be used carefully, only
   when absolutely necessary, and only by mutual or group consent. 

  In work situations, there will always be leaders and followers. 

  In non-work situations, 'power' can come from things like control of
  infrastructure, knowledge and subterfuge (compromising knowledge or ability
  to bribe / blackmail members), or manipulative cliques / factions. 

4) Infrastructure should be designed to preclude its use to hold power over
   another member.

  Infrastructure includes the group network -- the private channel, FTP server,
  bots, etc.  Ensure all these elements are not controlled by a single person
  or clique, and those who do control them lack the motivation or ability to
  manipulate the group or individual members.

23

Except for the Pig / Question from the pig, for members of digisub groups, past or present

« on: September 07, 2007, 08:01:47 am »

Despite many years of service, the pig rarely asks much in return.  Nonetheless, here's something he wanted to ask of people.

If you have been in a (fansub) group, and can think of a time where you felt dis-satisfied with the group, impeded by it, or just generally displeased b'cos of how things worked in that group, please post it here.

Just a short summary of the problem, how you attempted to deal with it, and what the end result was.  No need to get into specifics like group names, people names, project names, etc.

As a sample, here's my answer to the question that dates back 6-7 years ago:

In the original digisub group I happened to be a member of, the leader seemed biased toward only releasing shounen anime that he felt would be popular among leechers.  A few of us had completed an episode of a current 'cute' shoujo show and tried to get it released.  The leader refused to help us get it into distro b'cos he was afraid releasing a 'cute' 'girly' anime would tarnish the group's reputation among fans and possibly upset people who controlled the distro infrastructure, causing them to examine the group's future releases more carefully.  I dealt with the problem by complaining at first, but that didn't change a thing so then I just stayed quiet.  When shoujo-friendly groups started to appear, I joined a couple as opportunities presented themselves.  The end result was that a VHS fansubber released the 'cute' show we could never release, and that once I was in a few other groups I silently left the original group.

24

Oppai Fansubs / "Hijacking"

« on: June 10, 2007, 03:17:39 pm »

I'm posting this here so I don't have to keep explaining it indivually.

I don't think this happens much anymore, if it all, so it's mainly historical.

Today, for a major show (ie. Lucky Star, Sola, etc.) subbing by a major group typically happens very fast, a matter of days after the show has aired.  Used to be, even with a major show, it could be weeks before you saw a sub come out.

So what would happen is like this.  If up through episode 8 of a show has aired, and your group has been with the show from the beginning, releasing 1, 2, and 3 in the past, is working on 4 in the present, and in the future plans to continue the show.

At this same time, a rival group with the intent to 'hijack' the show starts working on episode 7.  They're not as good or efficient as your group, so it's going to take them time and a half to complete it.

Meanwhile your groups completes and releases 4 and 5.  Your rivals finish 7 and don't release it yet (since nobody has released episode 6).  By the time you finish 6, your rivals have finished 8, but again, they don't release it right away.

So the second you release 6, they release 7 and 8.  The fans don't really care, they'll download your 6, someone else's 7 and 8, and be extra happy.  Your group can probably get the fans back 9 or 10, but by then it may be licensed or the damage is already done.

Not to say this kind of thing couldn't backfire on your rivals.  The show could be licensed before they get a chance to release the episodes they've been holding back.  Or your group could take its own countermeasures if they know if the impending hijacking attempt.  Upon completing episode 6, hold it back and finish 7, 8.  Then release 6, 7, and 8 all at the same time.  Your rivals just did all that work for nothing.

Some groups were really paranoid about "getting 'jacked" and constantly trying to spy or infiltrate their rivals to figure out the episode numbers they were sitting on.  If a group openly denied they were working on a series, especially one they had said they were going to do earlier, some of the more paranoid groups would taks this as a de-facto admission they were planning to hijack the series once a few episode were out. 

I don't remember when the practice ended and the paranoia went away.  But it wasn't very common to begin with; it was mainly the paranoia and idle threats or bluffing made by troublemakers / agitators.  These days, it would be near impossible since when it comes to a popular show, the next episode isn't even going to be avaliable in raw form before the current one is released. 

25

Except for the Pig / Filename Stripper

« on: May 05, 2007, 02:57:31 am »

This is a work in progress and will probably continue to be as filenames are changing constantly.  It attempts to remove unnecessary [tags] in an automated fashion.  When it detects what appears to be a group tag prefixing the description, it will move it to the postfix position.

26

Except for the Pig / Answers from the pig (responses to questions asked over Skype)

« on: March 26, 2007, 12:53:58 am »

In the past, some of those who called the pig over Skype were unable to understand the answers he gave in full.  Therefore the pig's responses to the questions you ask are posted here, in full, in plain english, for reference.

27

Except for the Pig / termination of [deleted]

« on: March 12, 2007, 04:24:10 am »

This entitles the bearer to terminate [ [deleted] ], the
[ X ] Commie
[    ] Mutant
[ X ] Traitor
[ X ] Scum
[    ] Other
, in the service of the pig.

Everything is as determined by the pig.

28

Except for the Pig / ! (ADoS)

« on: March 02, 2007, 03:22:35 am »

As Mami-chan, how to stop from catching cold to perform later at concert?
To have Mami-chan give concert instead of substitute girl (Mizuna-chan?).
Know?  Please tell.

29

Except for the Pig / Year of the Pig

« on: February 18, 2007, 06:22:52 pm »

Today the "year of the pig" begins. 
http://news.search.yahoo.com/news/search?p=year+of+the+pig&c=
As always, feel free to use Skype to chat with our pig and talk about what he has planned for this year.  Hopefully the PigCam will be back up soon. 

30

Except for the Pig / Urgent: Death note dropped

« on: January 11, 2007, 10:54:42 am »

We were very skeptical about this too, but we place our utmost trust in the pig as he has lead live-evil forward out of many dark days and tough crises.  Our pig has consulted with both the astrologer and the feng-shui master and ordered that Death Note be dropped.  While most of us are at a loss to comprehend his reasoning, the pig has a proven track record on this sort of thing.  So there you have it, Death Note is dropped, and if you have any questions, talk with the pig on Skype.  He really wants to try out his new phone (hardware).  You can download Skype www.skype.com.