Author Topic: DEATH NOTE!!!! .:.Master Thread.:.  (Read 309977 times)

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Offline Sindobook

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Re: DEATH NOTE!!!! .:.Master Thread.:.
« Reply #345 on: December 14, 2006, 05:33:54 pm »
You can say that, but again, which does society judge harshly, and which favorably?  One who, with evil intent, commits an act that brings about great fortune, or one who, with good or benevolent intent, commits an act that brings about great misfortune?  And not just society's judgement, but which person does more good?  And how will history judge him?

One of the roles of advanced society and culture is to channel the 'evil intent' in this manner.  For instance, with capitalism, a despicable, greedy, power-hungry, evil man can start a business with the intent to become filthy rich with more money than he can spend.  Even if he gives nothing to charity or cares to help others, his business provides livelihood to thousands, with employment, and his extravagant lifestyle and purchases of luxury items help other businesses.  Though he has never committed a single act out of 'good' intent, or a single 'good' act, much good has come about because of him, and the world is a better place b'cos the evil man was born, and allowed to live. 

苍天已死,黄天当立,岁在甲子,天下大吉

Offline twik

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Re: DEATH NOTE!!!! .:.Master Thread.:.
« Reply #346 on: December 14, 2006, 08:34:49 pm »
Though he has never committed a single act out of 'good' intent, or a single 'good' act, much good has come about because of him, and the world is a better place b'cos the evil man was born, and allowed to live. 

One could argue that even though this hypothetical person is without good intent, he has in fact committed many good acts in your example about capitalism.  On paper this guy is no different than someone who does all the same things as him out of love.  Just as the worst of things can come from the best of intentions, it looks like the opposite case is true here.

Are intentions thus irrelevant?  Obviously not.  You and I can both tell the difference when the intentions are known, but practically speaking, the intentions behind any act committed by someone other than yourself may be unknown and can often only be inferred.  Fiction is a rare case in which all the intentions behind a given act may be known, but in real life this just isn't the case.  I like to believe that good intentions most often lead to good outcomes, just as bad intentions lead to bad, but as you've pointed out there can be exceptions to this.  Thus, society must judge based on actions and not intent. 

This disconnect between actions and intentions can lead us to trouble.  In Light's case, we know not only what he is done, but the reason for each action.  I won't go so far as to say it is easy to judge him, but at least we have all the facts.  However, take a real life case and what do you do?  Since we most often do not know 100% what someone who commits murder was thinking at the time, at best society can only project what the original intent was in deciding a punishment.  Some might reason that the only way murder could be committed is if the perpetrator has no respect for life.  Others might see a circumstance in which it was unpreventable, and thus the person should have a second chance.  There is bound to be clashing as we've seen here already in the debate about the death penalty.

Offline xjapan

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Re: DEATH NOTE!!!! .:.Master Thread.:.
« Reply #347 on: December 14, 2006, 09:20:08 pm »
hmm we,ve really talked about justifying killing here.
Well but we need to focus on justyfing Light's killing
Looking from Lights point of view. He looks at himself as God / Justice.
But from an outsiders point of view, hed be a smart pyscho abusing his unjust power.
As for intentions. he intends to do good but obviously hes not.
So, even if my intenions are good, what i,m doing might be bad. Yet can i be called evil?
I believe that theres a thin border to that. something like baking a cake for your moms birthday
but messing up the kitched couldnt be called evil.
Yet i feel that what Light is doing can
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Offline Michael

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Re: DEATH NOTE!!!! .:.Master Thread.:.
« Reply #348 on: December 14, 2006, 10:44:50 pm »
Ok, I generally find philosophy pretty boring, however how I see it is that whether or not a person sees Light 's actions as justified depends on whether or not you agree with the belief that "the ends justify the means".

Really, this whole argument/stance boils down to this philosophical question.

Offline Sindobook

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Re: DEATH NOTE!!!! .:.Master Thread.:.
« Reply #349 on: December 14, 2006, 10:52:20 pm »
Actually when it comes to murder, intent and/or malice is the main differentiator between Murder, Voluntary Manslaughter, and Involuntary Manslaughter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manslaughter

"The law generally differentiates between levels of criminal culpability based on the mens rea, or state of mind. This is particularly true within the law of homicide, where murder requires either the intent to kill, or a state of mind called malice, or malice aforethought, which may involve an unintentional killing but with a willful disregard for life."

And in the case of fiction you typically only see surface thoughts.  This is often an incomplete picture.  If the subconscious wants to kill out of malice, the conscious mind can find 'logical' or 'permissible' reasons to justify the killing, in order to please one's character and conscience.  This conscious reasoning doesn't automatically make (him) a good character or one with, at least, good intentions. 

Offline twik

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Re: DEATH NOTE!!!! .:.Master Thread.:.
« Reply #350 on: December 16, 2006, 08:49:21 am »
I won't get into details since many people will not have seen #11 yet, but I have to say, I really like where the show is going.  As always, job well done by LLE.

Offline MorgothErmis

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Re: DEATH NOTE!!!! .:.Master Thread.:.
« Reply #351 on: December 16, 2006, 02:31:24 pm »
damn,all of the sites hosting Direct Download of DN are down  :-\

Offline xjapan

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Re: DEATH NOTE!!!! .:.Master Thread.:.
« Reply #352 on: December 16, 2006, 04:01:08 pm »
WOO 11 is out. kudos to LLE for another speedy and quality release.

erm even though this has nothing to do with DeathNote. Check this out especially if you,re a NANA fan.

http://www.myspace.com/tianzi
Blow your mind ~

<3 my babies Robin & Leena

Offline tlynnec

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Re: DEATH NOTE!!!! .:.Master Thread.:.
« Reply #353 on: December 21, 2006, 07:28:46 am »
Whoa.  I ignore the thread for a week and I have four solid pages of long intelligent posts to read!  *note to self: keep up with the thread!!!* 

I want to reply but so many points were made!  Plus I just read volume 8 of the manga and now i'm afraid i'll spoil something  ;)  guess i'll jsut have to wait and join in on the next point  ::)

Oh, and thanks for the assorted compliments folks! *bows*
You shall taste oblivion! ... which tastes like redbull... which is disgusting...

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Offline xjapan

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Re: DEATH NOTE!!!! .:.Master Thread.:.
« Reply #354 on: December 23, 2006, 04:11:39 pm »
T_T no deathnote. o well i wont whine but tlynnec whay do ya read the manga? DN movie 2 : the last name comes out in singapore in 4 days time
i wont watch it though for spoilers. the anime is best = )
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<3 my babies Robin & Leena

Offline woonie

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Re: DEATH NOTE!!!! .:.Master Thread.:.
« Reply #355 on: December 24, 2006, 04:26:06 am »
Watching the movie won't be that spoilerific, coz it has a rather different storyline compared to the anime, though the main idea about deathnote is still there.

wahaha yeah i can't wait for dec 28 XD

Offline tlynnec

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Re: DEATH NOTE!!!! .:.Master Thread.:.
« Reply #356 on: December 25, 2006, 01:33:18 am »
tlynnec whay do ya read the manga?

Because I started reading the manga long before the anime started, so I'm thoroughly hooked on the manga . ;D 
Good thing too, since L-E would never have picked up DN if I hadn't wanted to do it and talked everyone else into it  :P
You shall taste oblivion! ... which tastes like redbull... which is disgusting...

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Offline twik

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Re: DEATH NOTE!!!! .:.Master Thread.:.
« Reply #357 on: December 25, 2006, 05:49:11 am »
Because I started reading the manga long before the anime started, so I'm thoroughly hooked on the manga . ;D 
Good thing too, since L-E would never have picked up DN if I hadn't wanted to do it and talked everyone else into it  :P

That's interesting.  Do you feel that your work on the series is influenced by your experience with the manga or are you treating it one episode at a time?

Offline tlynnec

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Re: DEATH NOTE!!!! .:.Master Thread.:.
« Reply #358 on: December 25, 2006, 10:28:34 pm »
just taking it one episode at a time. Fortunately, the storylines and even the dialogue are almost identical, so its easy to enjoy both without feeling like one is "wrong" or "right." 
And I know someone's going to ask: no, we do NOT copy dialogue from the manga, the show is entirely translated by ear... though I do check the manga to make sure names are spelled right! ;)
You shall taste oblivion! ... which tastes like redbull... which is disgusting...

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I am staff, hear me roar!

Offline xjapan

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Re: DEATH NOTE!!!! .:.Master Thread.:.
« Reply #359 on: December 26, 2006, 04:19:46 am »
Fortunately, the storylines and even the dialogue are almost identical, so its easy to enjoy both without feeling like one is "wrong" or "right." 

Ah thats nice to hear. There are times where the Manga is more in depth than the anime
Blow your mind ~

<3 my babies Robin & Leena